Harvey was condemned by Hollywood while Bill received the proverbial Standing O, I had to read this twice. Wow!!! "He told me what he thought about how I looked, very specifically, what he thought about my leadership gifts, my strengths," she told the Tribune. The founding couple died, and the board got rid of those naughty kids and grandkids. @ dee: Brad, not all of us read or study the scriptures with the same filter. How can leadership send an OPINION to the entire congregation? Sometimes theyre letting you know who theyve really been followingand who they havent been. Actually, those are the tools of the enemy, formerly called deception and it is THAT which God desires to rescue us from. Is Lynne Hybels Still Married To Bill Yes. Since Hybels resigned, a few of the accusers have stated that they did not want it to come to that. So just what is romance? As Bill Hybels learned, there's far more to romantic love than meets the eye. At what point did Nancy inform her husband? January 28, 2020 8:39 pm. I mean, it makes for good gossip too. Hybels fell for him when he was on staff with Rob Bell at Mars Hill EMERGENT Church, in Grand Rapids. Don calls men who abuse their female intimate partners skilled offenders. My mom was abused sexually. Ephesians 4:2 That said, this is all so tragic. The naked woman swimming around the boat incident he related in a way to make himself appear understanding and concerned for her welfare. I dont think the view of hell is really the issue for the church leaders highlighted here. How many do you want, Brad? Does Bill Hybels teach pastors how to get more friendly with his staff, but keep it under raps? How hard is it for men to keep their hands off women in the work environment? Hybels appears to be trying to fade off into the sunset now. So, Am I over thinking it?, one wonders. That attitude was a LOT more prevalent than people think. Its time stamped documentation. You are now in permanent moderation. What you are saying is that public perception of sin causes people to walk away from the faith? Hes clearly a narcissistic predator, and I feel so horrible for his victims, his family, and especially those for who the spell hasnt been broken yet and whom he will continue to abuse. This is VERY common. Hybels has barely spoken anything about his married life and rarely has appeared in the media with his wife. It is in the section entitled, An inquiry begins, about halfway down the page. I do. What I am remembering, and what troubled me then, is how these well-meaning people fell under the Willow Creek spell, and how their little, creaky, boring churches could not compete with the new mega entertainment center. Is it that tough for you to give Bill Hybels any redeeming value? Thanks Dee. You know, Bill Hybels for two decades or more promoted himself as the one with a system that would revolutionize the church and make it relevant. It was recently revealed that Bill Hybels' wife, Lynne, filed for divorce after 37 years of marriage. In the seeker world, it tends to mean numbers, programs, etc. It has been posted several times. What I see here is a whole lot of wholesale condemnation. She claims Bill Hybels brought up the incident in Hawaii about the ambien. Read the Bible. Is it that tough for you to give Bill Hybels any redeeming value? Unfortunately, this particular scandal not only impacts specific Willow Creek pastors or employees it impacts the body of Christ and the thousands of people seeking to know Jesus. For example, I have no problem with a man eating dinner in a public restaurant with a woman who is not his wife . Its the same thing my university wrings their hands over. And, no, it does not minimize their words concerning what Bill Hybels has done. People not in the mega inner circle world dont understand it. Bill Hybels got married to Lynne in 1974. Why is Willow Creek exempt? A former minister of mine would give the teenage girl side hugs, which put his hand in a place it shouldnt have been. But, still I try not to broad brush. Forgiveness/ redemption for the sinner does not mean acceptance of the sin, nor does it mean deliverance from the consequences of the sin. Its called passive aggressive and deflection. ISBN13: 9780310533719 Release Date: June 1993 Publisher: Zondervan Length: 240 Pages Weight: 0.40 lbs. On the surface, an extended hug may seem harmless, even though deep down it creeps you out a little. Simul justus et peccator. (Spell check keeps changing it to percolator!). Shaping a church this way is an abomination, puts Hybels in very dangerous territory. @ okrapod: The door was open. And if it gets really bad the staunch hybels factions may end up being ousted. Bill Hybels confessed a few years ago that WC had made a mistake by not encouraging church members to read their Bibles and mature spiritually. Dee, my Sister Nancy Beach sent me this today. At what point will Heather Lawson realize that Willow Creek needs to over? This reminds me of Bob Packwood, a former senator from my state. Publishers are pulling back for a reason. Ever. Things are starting to get ugly. But one thing I know, we have a choice in our behaviors. Honestly, there is a lot of gossip here and on other social media about all this. 2) Its the cost of doing business as a very large or successful church Really? Just wonderin. Then they become red flags. Recently posted by the Chicago Tribune, which has tracked this story since breaking it in March: Two publishers suspend publication of books by megachurch pastor Hybels in wake of misconduct allegations.. They are pits of mass deception and subterfuge. I believe her account. You see pastor do something and you know its off, but you rationalize it away I mustve misunderstood what was going on. Down the road, you something else, maybe far worse comes up, you think Oh, pastor, hes a little quirky, but he means well. You then experience something genuinely alarming, you think Well, hes an imperfect man, but God uses us all, no ones perfect.. That group togetherness thing costs big time. I think thats where you get the people that say reports like this hurt the church. The premise of con- templative spirituality is pantheistic (God is all) and panentheistic (God is in all). I have seen it done for over 40 years now. All of the disciples failed Jesus. The Buckner Show has been cancelled; we now return this time slot to the regularly-scheduled Wartburg Watch.. So thats why I was interested in this concept. I know in some places and countries, its cultural, but in general, hugging between men and women in the U.S.in workplace situations esp.is not considered appropriate or professional. How to build a corporation in 5 easy steps. In that planning he can do and say things prior to the offence which will give him a get out of jail free card later if his offence gets exposed or the target woman overtly resists his abuse. I cant help but see your point here. Hybels problem seemed to be hotel rooms. I agree. This includes a majority Christian circle. They are fighting for Hybels. Some will sadly never make the decision to follow Christ. Nancy, like Vonda, believed her experience with Bill was an isolated incident. Hybels is spending his time complaining and murmuring against his accusers, rather than taking their contentions to heart, examining himself, repenting and coming clean. Because I handled it in the moment (As she did with her push away response to Hybels) And it worked. The existence of an impartial documented history of 2 years worth of 1150 emails between Bill and the other woman is stark corroboration. . Get this straight. Was Hybels intimating that The Ambien made me do it? Read this account posted by Vonda Dyer. I believe the world is far more interested in Christians who know they are sinners and deal with it as opposed to Christians who are actively trying to keep the sin thing on the down low. How would it be possible to remain as a staff member and not address the issue? If you cant trust your pastor who can you trust? He spent a week capturing one of the biggest aurora borealis shows in recent years. Thanks, Futurist Guy. I dont know that I qualify in your estimation as a person of substance, but Ive been a reader/commenter on this blog for 10 years and have seen Law Profs post for a number of years and know some of his background. All we can do is obey the Lord, do whatever it is were told by Him to do. Bill has been married to Lynn Hybels since 1974. But If you make a big deal about nothing, you are the problem. I tried to say disciplining. Little nobodies dont stand a chance. Come Lord Jesus! Assuming TWW readers have spent some time absorbing background and details about Bill Hybels and the evidence from the women who came forward with accusations, what do you see as possible points and patterns with that case study, compared with those of Joss Whedon and Lawrence Krauss? @ okrapod: I hope its okay to post. People have been had. Or is this site simply about wholesale condemnation, I am so glad to hear that you are well versed in the Scriptures. This was shortly after a truly awful Christianese Youth Group rap number (GANGSTAAAAAA!!!! Brad, for better or worse, you are an example of the average WCC person to me. And while Hybels coached men to abide by the so-called "Billy Graham rule"never being alone with a women he was not married tohe often broke that rule, according to the Tribune. Family. If it is seeing a good friend after a long time, a family member, etc, understandable. Who are the people our Creator said were His people? Certainly not the ones who keep claiming they are always the victims. Thats why it cant be measured in terms of numbers, and in the case of Graham and Hybels are likely massively inflated anyway, and again, they dont get the numbers credit in any event, because its not that simple, its an enormously complex process that leads anyone to this or that place where they hear a message that the Holy Spirit uses to tip them over the fence. If there is anything we can do to be of further support, do not hesitate to let us know! Why do one in three Christian marriages end in divorce? Shauna (Hybels) met her husband at Willow Creek before they went to Mars Hill and joined Rob Bells staff. Bill Hybels touched me, hugged me invited me to his room I left then went to my hotel room and cried.. I pray every day for you-know-who to be able to find a way out of teaching which did not result in poverty. Kind of surprised it was allowed to stand without edit or response. Obviously very biblically ignorant site!! Peoples boundaries and privacy should never be breached unless specifically invited or welcomed to do so one way or the other. Was Hybels intimating that The Ambien made me do it?. I had the same thought about his promotion of women. Adults need to Stop being snookered by totalitarian niceness. 18 For the word of the cross is folly to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God. I think they all have the same m.o. They know exactly how to size people up, how to take advantage of their needs, insecurities, weaknesses, etc. Whats being destroyed is the idol worship of Bill Hybels. Mahaney books. Read the books and follow the formula. Is it not I, the LORD? Used their positions of power to gain access to women who had big dreams Be the one who is loving and kind in the midst of sorrow, showing us that you trust Jesus to bring something beautiful out of this pain. You were easily manipulated by an evil expert (especially with children). Most common reaction in the world. Certainly does not sound like the sort of objective, information-seeking statement one would expect from an informational meeting. Its ridiculous. : How does one explain it? How many women would even dare come forward after being called liars, drunks and suicidal? God is not in the business of secretly brainwashing and subtly mind controlling people. So grateful for this much-needed emphasis this weekend. The new lead pastor discounts the claims of the betrayed and encourages the women of the church to believe differently. This easy-to-follow guide for enjoying a happy, healthy, and lifelong relationship includes . Hes probably kicking himself for the missed opportunity! I was joking about the dog. Driscoll will do quite well in charismatic ranks. It is now obvious to me why Ortberg not only believed the accounts of the other victims but why she advocated for them. WC is Hybels no matter how much they protest. Thats a laugh. It legitimately creates automatic suspicion, and potential legal woes. Anyone who says otherwise or who tries to slam someone for not telling immediately just doesnt know what theyre talking about. Betrayal, trust, etc. Personally I was more offended by Wailing Wall-Satanic ritual connection. Do you believe it is someone posing as her, or do you think she is in on it? Tried to handle it internally. I have long been leery of Hybels (and other mega church pastors) because these guys are basically Christian rock stars and are treated accordingly. I allowed links and discussion on Jodis open letter despite the fact that I found it insulting to true victims. I have other views about resigning rock star pastors but wont go into it now. Parallel universe I suppose; different set of rules most likely. Look up who are semitic people. Long after no one can remember Willow Creek and the building is long gone, Jesus will still be Lord. I know men who are capable of hugging without copping a feel. He needs nothing, needs none of us, but He loves us and makes us a part of His plan. I stood up and walked out. Some people left, but our church has been transformed. Im thankful they embraced egalitarianism and led the way with women in leadership. And I promise: NO ONE was ever saved, in all history, because of eloquence. Sounds like at least some of the accusers would like to see justice for sure, but also redemption for even Hybels. Leave the tabulations to the guy with the higher pay grade. Read the Bible Dee. Not just anyone can do it well. Read Acts 2. And my understanding is that it applies to both criminal cases and civil lawsuits, and in any regulatory actions (like IRS or state Attorney General investigations of corporations). @ AbuseCrusher: Cant people be sincere and caring without all that? Whats being destroyed is the idol worship of Bill Hybels. Just to preface: I am a nobody and not a perfect saint. ", © 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012, 2013, 2014, 2015, 2016, 2017, 2018, 2019, 2020, 2021, 2022 - The Wartburg Watch. Maybe they even went to the Wailing Wall and performed that satanic ritual and maybe were forever changed and lost. When you read it, I think you might as well. Dee, I was wondering how you got him to do that gig. What would you have suggested she tell her husband? Sounds like he at the time did some things that outside of context would be perceived as unwise with co-workers. The Spirit works, sometimes over decades, with friends and acquaintances. Of course, if theres some hidden motive of those speaking out, thats one thing, but as has been said, this is all in the process of getting out after many questions have been raised about what was or wasnt done with previous accountability procedures (emails, board meetings, etc.). We sat under their leadership at Willow Creek for several years and were sad when the Ortbergs left to California. Because human beings are still sinful and the combination of money, power, influence and sex remains toxic, systems which largely ape the culture . If you continue to use this site we will assume that you are happy with it. The Spirit works, sometimes over decades, with friends and acquaintances. We could apply those words to the most recent statement by Mr Hybels. Its uncomfortable but is it anything really? I recognized something was wrong with that, but for various reasons, didnt quite make the connection. There are some 20 gifts mentioned in Scripture (Romans 12, Ephesians 4, 1 Corinthians 1213). Listen to yourself, Brad! My bad for not being back in touch with you. https://jodiwalle.com/openlettertojohnortberg. Dee and Deb, if you are able, can you please let Vonda know about my previous comment? Brad may be a Christian, one stunted by being immersed in an environment that had the form of godliness while denying the power, but he also may be one who wouldnt know Jesus if He walked up and gave him a hug. The statement was wrong in every way and since there is a great possibility that the group is very concerned and just seeking truth. But telling someone immediately might be crucial in the future. The focus was wrong and a bit too emphatic for me. (In a related relevant situation, wasnt it the tech department that noticed irregularities with messaging from Tullian Tchividjian to women that directly led to the disclosure of his misconduct?). How hard is it for men to keep their hands off women in the work environment? And few of us agree on every point! I have yet to ask these people what they think of all this. Weve both been busy with writing projects and many other things. Instead, we are the be faithful to our calling. People are observing us, day in and day out. John & Nancy Ortberg are known to be false teachers, mis-leading the body of Christ teaching unbiblical things such as contemplative prayer which amounts to nothing other than New Age mysticism. Yet, recent expanded personal testimony and wider media discovery has presented material that strongly suggests an Willow Creek senior pastoral history of improper judgement in relation to proper scriptural leading or proper inner-workings of a church representing the teachings of Jesus Christ. You be the Mugu; I be the Master! Ortberg actually does have a chance to step up and be the bigger man here. Its the attempt by pastors to do life together and facilitate relationship-building which will then hopefully anchor the visitor to the church and reduce dropouts and increase retention rates. The kids tried to sue the board to no avail. I was speaking more generally, I dont hug men at work! Here are some points of summary that I wrote about why this matters: From some of the background reading on this issue, it is clear that digital documents, audio, and video can constitute relevant evidence in any of these legal actions. Bill Hybels Family. And the devil is not after your church, WC. I find it ironic Jodi thinks she is helping Billy. Bill Hybels verbally and emotionally intimidated both female and male employees. Exactly. Not every Christian is called to be an evangelist, but every Christian should have a heart for the lost. I assume you mean well. Im no expert, but my research in such matters suggests how clever and manipulative abusers are. We'll talk about that in the week ahead. Jodi may get extra points for a time for her clever rant but if this thing goes south she will be the first to go. Take responsibility for your actions and the role you played! I dont fault them for that, but its what happens. I can assure you that everyone is reading the comments!!! I wonder if he knows? It doesnt matter what they were wearing, what they were drinking, etc. Blank stares all around. Please dont judge Nancys actions she did what most women would do. Children The couple has two children. Statement removes all doubt, in my opinion, regarding serious sexual sin and leadership issues at Willow Creek Community Church as it comes to Bill Hybels. The important thing is to get people on the bandwagon, and manipulate them to maintain their undying love and loyalty. Many self/proclaimed Christians dont. @ Headless Unicorn Guy: And once thats done, the only way to survive is to seize the throne Myself. Ive known Sociopaths who could look you right in the eye and Lie with total open-eyed, butter-wouldnt-melt-in-their-mouth Sincerity. The Devil is destroying yet another church. It is also understandable why John and Nancy Ortbergs relationship with the Hybels took a nosedive. *Bill also admitted that the woman alleging an affair had spent many nights at the Hybels home when Lynne was out of town.* (from the Nancy Ortberg post). What they are doing is exactly what someone who has been there would expect them to do. 40 years of it. Of course, some people, probably many people, will do things just for politeness sake. Ok. Ok. Bill Cosby, no less, but under the umbrella of a church. Updated | Rev. My only (small) hang-up is that the authors, Bill and Lynne Hybels, use examples and stories that are probably pretty dated for 22-28 year-olds getting married nowadays. It took her a long time to get up the courage to say enough was enough. Some people, educated people, decent people, never talked. But only a few. The FAQ document she links, however, entitled Willow Creek Response to Local Media, has mysteriously transformed itself into a 404 NOT FOUND message. Paint her as crazy, vindictive, or loose. Nor will Christians abandon their faith en masse over this. Bill Hybels has stepped down from Chicago-area megachurch Willow Creek six months ahead of his planned retirement, in the wake of allegations of misconduct . Marquet changed the Leader-Follower traditional naval paradigm to Leader-Allocate Control, resulting in success for all. Its amazing how many believers will interpret the metaphor of fruit differently, for example. Its not a numbers game, its not like worldly sales with rainmakers and marketing and big hits. Without gossip and people looking out, anyone who has been hurt by church/leadership will simply be driven out, and the whole thing covered up. Or even an outlier, if need be. @ Davis and Natasha: Hint hint. Bye! She thanks you too. Was condemned by Hollywood while Bill received the proverbial Standing O, I am nobody!, some people, will do things just for politeness sake certainly not the who. 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