[28] . The first ancient tribe of Thamud should be distinguished from later tribes named Thamud by historians and archaeologists, as well as the region itself, which was known as the land of Thamud and sometimes simply Thamud.. Although the Thamud probably originated in southern Arabia, a large group apparently moved northward at an early date, traditionally settling on the slopes of Mount Athlab. The absence of evidence here is no evidence of absence. They were successors to the People of Noah. "Thamud are an ancient Arabia, tribe or group of tribes that seem to have been prominent from about the 4th century BC to the first half of the 7th century AD. The above article contained links to images which do not show up in here after I copied and pasted them from my ms word. [30], In the 12th century, the Arab Ja'alin tribe migrated into Nubia and Sudan and formerly occupied the country on both banks of the Nile from Khartoum to Abu Hamad. In sura 15, there seems to be a chronological order: At first the story of Adam (as) is mentioned (26-50), then the story of Abraham (as) and Lot (as) (51-77), then the story of the people of al-Rass,i.e. For one, Allah certainly mentions that the Thamud were successors to the Aad. What the hidden 85 percent will reveal remains to be seen. Here is the summary of his opinion: ( ) which only proves that al-Hijr was also the land of the Thamud which is not a problem. Hud ( ) was sent to Ad and after their destruction, Thamud inherited the land. . And you said the inside has to be bigger how big do you think it has to be inside like the inside of petra or smaller or bigger and how many rooms do you think there should of been or do you think the inside of madion al saleh is the right size sorry for all the questions but these are it then I wont ask any more questions Im justin putting them all so then thats it jazzakkallah, This is also part of 4. 2. 11. The Thamud did not worship God, and were disobedient. The fact that these structures are still around today, after nearly 4000 years is a testament to their quality and design. The Thamd are infrequently mentioned in contemporary indigenous Arabian sources, although two Safaitic inscriptions carved some time between the first century BCE and the fourth century CE refer to "the year of the war between Gm and the tribe of Thamd [snt rb gm l md]". And remember when He made you successors after the Aad and settled you in the land?Chapter 7, Verse 74. So youd then say that the buildings at Madain Salih were indeed originally Thamudic and then after that built upon by other nations? Can you explain how 89:9 is in the past tense (used to carve) because the AL (the) before the mountions bit makes it sound like in the preasent like specific if you know what I mean jazzakkallah I just had the chance to look at the comments now and I dont seem to understand the problem here. It does not state, however, who made the inscriptions. Such an amazing thing was supposed to be their sign. Ok thanks jazzakkallah last questions and ill leave it at that what do you mean not on the surface and is 89:9 saying the Arabs could still see those buildings because it says (the rocks it uses al the why not just say rocks and what does it mean by rocks does it mean houses or mountains thanks from there I will bring you down, Traditionally, both the prophets Hud and Saleh and by implication, their respective communities Aad andThamud, are thought to have existed generations before Abraham, placing them well before 1300 BC (at the very least1). I feel there may be some misconception about how to view Quran. Also what time do you think noah ad and thamud came. The verses are fairly generic as there has been mention of people of Lut and Shoaib that are also very close proximity. This is because Prophet Ismail (AS) is often considered to be the father of Arabs just like Prophet Ishaaq/Isaac (AS) is considered to be the father of the Israelites. Hud was from among the Aad himself, as Allah mentions in the Quran: Aad denied the Messengers when their brother Hud said to them: Will you not fear Allah?Chapter 26, Verses 124 125. This is an article I recently wrote. [34][35] Tribalism is a significant characteristic of Arab population in Khuzestan.[36]. ""- . that that Thamud did it then the edomites took over then the nabteaons but all I know is that Thamud existed before 3000 bc so 3000 bc is probably when they were destroyed then the edomites revamped them made them look new then the nabteaons did the same and I believe the tribe of ad was destroyed weather 5-8 thousand bc and I believe noahs flood was around the ending off the ice age what was between 10-13 thousand bc became the population of the world was only 1 million at 10 thousand bc and no more than 20 million people at 5000 bc what makes stuff interesting but as a side note if the quran does say that noahs people was the first to commit shirk then ad then thamud but none at the same time or between then thamud had to come before 9000 bc so that was when they would be destroyed because the gobeki tepe was built then and that was definitely pagan shirk but this is my opion but thanks, And of course ad was the descendents of noah and thamud was the descendents of ad. They boasted of their physical strength, and power; they thought that this would protect them from Allh's punishment. I believe neither are in error. Some people think petra was thamud do you think so jazzakkallah, But the main question for me is the first one number 1 the rest are just side questions but number 1 is the main one for me what I would like a detailed response the rest are more of yes or no qustions jazzakkallah sorry to keep bothering you, But I do agree with your article its just getting more information thats all jazzakkallah so I know how to answer this question jazzakkallah, This is part of qustion 4 do you think 27:52 is talking about there dwellings in the mountions or on the plains or both and does 27:52 mean there dwellings collapsed fallen because if yes 89:9 makes it sound like it is standing that there are more of the buildings showing then just partially but more showing of the buildings so how do we explain this jazzakkallah, Sorry for them being spaced out just put them together but 8. also if there buildings were very big there had to be more left of the buildings remains in the time of the prophet then just partially shouldnt there or not because if they were big there should of been more left or not do you think jazzakkallah how would we explain this jazzakkallah but like I said question 1 is the main one, 9. Qur'anic accounts of Salih always follow those of Hud. The Nabataeans were nomadic Arabs who moved into territory vacated by the Edomites Semites who settled the region centuries before them. http://www.imgrum.org/media/1483126817820752683_724804649 If we try to discuss the lineage of the Arabs well be here forever. Abul Ala Maududi. [16] Scarcity of water and of permanent pastoral land required them to move constantly. Al-ijr, Saudi Arabia: ancient Thamd house, This article was most recently revised and updated by. But as is clear from the above discussion, Thamud were thriving as late as maybe the 4th century AD, while the people of Aad have left their final trails, only a few centuries before that. As Suleyman Dost observes, The Qurns reference to rock-cut dwellings fits the picture perfectly with the exception that these carved niches do not seem to have functioned as living areas3, Returning to textual references, Diodorus, a Greek historian writing in the first century BC, mentions a group called Thamoudnoi in North-Western Arabia4. [10], Arab Islamic sources state that the Thamud were an early Arab tribe that had gone extinct in ancient days. Qur'anic accounts of Salih always follow those of Hud. ** For what purpose is the tale of 'd and Thamd? So Allah sent a camel with the simple command: Dont harm her. [1] Arab tribes have historically inhabited the Arabian Peninsula, but after the spread of Islam, they began to heavily migrate and settle in other areas such as the Levant,[2] Mesopotamia,[3] Egypt,[4] Sudan,[5] the Maghreb,[6] and Khuzestan. Both tribes are of great reputed antiquity and, according to traditional Arab genealogists, are two of the four ba 'ida, or extinct tribes. 6. Here is how their argument goes: The Quran describes prophet called Salih ( ), who lived in the Thamud tribe. It is possible that the dwelling areas are no longer visible in the last 1400 years as these are just small rooms and tombs with no space inside. You built mansions on the plains and hewed the hills into houses[7:74]. The wordings themselves state so and all the tafaseer also state this. (3). They wanted to prove that (scientifically, of course) that Salih was not telling the truth. The Prophet ordered that the drinking water be split and the flour given to the camels, and he ordered them to drink the water from the well to which the she-camel (of Salih) had come. The tribes of Arabia descend from either one of the two Arab ancestors, Adnan or Qahtan. The Thamd were known from contemporary sources to have occupied parts of the Hejaz region, and later Islamic tradition holds that they settled on the slopes of Mount Athlab. She states that all we have are A few papyri, which are mainly private contracts, and thousands of graffiti scattered on the rocks, 90% of which contain only the name of the individual who wrote it, his fathers name, and a formulaic greeting. And of course, they were also polytheists. Thank you for answering my questions thanks I just have 2 more questions then Im done then ill leave it jazzakkallah Nabateans replaced them and built on them/around them After giving birth, the camel drank all the water from a well every two days and then produced enormous amounts of milk for the people. Most of the monuments and inscriptions of the archaeological site of Al-Hijr date from the 1st century BCE and the 1st century CE. We cannot preclude the notion that structures that are completely different from what has been found so far, will be found in the future. Abdullah ibn Umar, may Allah be pleased with him, reported: . However, while I agree that these two groups are certainly predecessors to modern Arabs, Im not convinced that Hud, Salih, Shuayb, and Ismail were actually Arabs.. I guess it can be said that the Nabataeans can be considered one of the nations succeeding the people of Thamud. After all, camels were and still are pretty common in that part of the world. And so, when Our command was fulfilled, by Our mercy We saved li and his fellow believers from the disgrace of that day. Previous ones may have fallen and replaced by Nabateans but during the time of the Prophet (), there did remain buildings of Thamud and who knows, they might still be there today but undiscovered by archaeologists. [25], Some Islamic sources claim that the Banu Thaqif tribe, an Arab tribe from Ta'if in the period of Muhammad, was descended from a survivor of the Thamud (sometimes a slave of Salih). The exact time of their existence is nearly impossible to determine. who occupy the heights of the hill. Between the mountains were valleys with gardens and springs of water. They are the idumeans( Edomites), Prophet Abraham pbuh was a Chaldean who had, People of uz autocorrect sucks sometimes, The quran pretty unambiguously says that the people of Nuh were a globalised civilization, so your timing seems a bit off, Your email address will not be published. Sargon defeated these tribes, according to his Annals, and had them forcibly deported to Samaria. According to the Greek historian, Diodorus Siculus, the Nabateans have a law neither to sow corn nor to plant any fruit-bearing plant, nor to use wine, nor to build a house. He said, "My people, just think: if I did have clear proof from my Lord, and if He had given me mercy of His own, who could protect me from God if I disobeyed Him? They just wanted to catch him in some sort of inconsistency they could use to discredit him. Traditional Quranic commentaries assumed that they were a South Arabian people, but it turns out, they had their base in Wadi Ramm in present-day Jordan. declares the LORD. (LogOut/ Source: Sahih Muslim 2981, Grade: Sahih, . As for option 2, we know next to nothing about the Thamud. Its in their records, that we find out first mention of Thamud. They were elites. A report in the hadith collection of Bukhari makes this connection between Thamud and al-Hijr quite explicit. [3] As the "Ta-mu-di", the peoples are mentioned together with the Ephah, the "Ibadidi", and the "Marsimani" as part of "the distant desert-dwelling Arabs who knew neither overseers nor officials and had not brought their tribute to any king". Expel Jews and Christians from Arabian Peninsula? Archaeologists should do their job the way they do and in case of any finding, they can confirm whether it conflicts with the Quran or not; if it does not, then there is nothing wrong to proceed with it further but if it does, then archaeology needs to be further examined however, such an occurrence would never happen since the Quran is from God. [21], A hadith tradition preserved in the a al-Bukhr collection narrates that the Islamic prophet Muhammad called Hegra "the land of Thamud" and did not allow his troops to drink from its wells or to use its water, and to never enter its ruins "unless weeping, lest occur to you what happened to them. He sent Prophet Hud (AS) to the Aad, and Prophet Salih (AS) to the Thamud. And [We destroyed] 'Aad and Thamud and the companions of the well and many generations between them. [18] According to the Quran, the Thamud were the successors of a previous nation called the d, who had also been destroyed for their sins. The Thamud were scientists. [23] Arab tribes such as Banu Muzaina migrated, and the Arab Muslims in the region had more impact on the culture of the Maghreb than the region's conquerors before and after them. You would only make my loss greater. 27:52 means that their dwellings were destroyed but visible to the onlookers and the Prophet () and the Sahaba saw them but we cannot see them today Arabian tradition holds that the Thamud kingdom was destroyed by God. This shouldnt be surprising as the Quraish, and in fact most faiths, do the same thing. And when they conqured people, they did so in a harsh, brutal, and ruthless manner. Like some of the tombs have window openings and some of the niches are not much more wide than a hand, which hardly can serve as a resting place for a human body. As Dost aptly observes, thedescription [of Aad and Thamud] in the Qurn is the sum of historical memory and topographical observations modeled on the familiar configuration of perished peoples, (This is part of series on Arabia. Create a free website or blog at WordPress.com. Sahih International. The tribes of Ad and Thamud were ancient people who existed on the Arabian Peninsula many centuries ago and were recipients of the Prophets Hud and Salih, respectively. They lived in the kingdom of Edom, which is about 200 or so miles from Madian Saleh, where, supposedly, the Quranic Thamud lived, although the Thamud could have lived in multiple areas, including Petra 3. There existed a nation called the Edomites. It had no written law, but the tribal leader played the role of ruler. So, basically during the time of the Prophet (), their remains were not on the surface and only some of them were visible. As is the usual case, the Christians are, 1. It was these nine families that cause much of the problems for Salih. I will post the links here for now. There is a Jew hiding behind me; so kill him! Assalamualaikum the ruined abandoned wells may possible be referring to those belonging to the People of Ar-Rass (i.e. As for the wells, studies have shown that the Nabateans were experts in the field of irrigation and a lot of wells was attributed to them. 12. There is a place called Khyber at Pakistan/Afghanistan border but that is NOT the Khyber of Madina. In other words either the evidence no longer exists (no problem) or Thamudic dwellings in North West Arabia are yet to be discovered. Hence, they didnt engage in long, drawn out debates with Hud. (29:38) If they turn away, then say, I warn you of a lightning-bolt like the lightning-bolt of Ad and of Thamud. And they used to deny Our Ayat! Theres no real reason to mention them lastly, except they came after al-Rass and they are also included in this chronological order as well. There is no God but Allah and Muhammad is His Messenger . Ptolemy, who lived in the second century, wrote that the "Thamuditai" tribe inhabited the Red Sea coastline, and that the "Thamoudenoi" tribe lived in inland northwestern Arabiaeither or both may be references to the Thamdwhile his contemporary Uranius believed that the Thamd neighbored the Nabateans. In my opinion this is an argument that Muslims have to tackle thoroughly due to its ease of presentation by non-Muslims and (hypothetical) explanatory power. They mistreated the lower classes and worshiped others besides Allah. The hadith reports the prophet (pbuh) as having passed Median Saleh and described the ruins as their dwellings referring to the Thamud. 3. While I think thats a response one could muster the fact is that we have no evidence whatsoever for that and it does not explain why the Prophet () would have referred to them as punished people. This is what the Sovereign LORD says about Edom Similarly, much later, Thamud were wiped out and their remains were taken over by Midianites of which we see the pictures and they constructed over them as per their methods. What else do you have in mind As were dealing with an allegation that is mostly Christian in origin, I am going to start with what the Bible says about the topic. They were so proud of their accomplishments, that they built huge castles, palaces, and other structures as symbols of their power. Question:What is the correct explanation for the P --* _ . The Nabateans who made the carvings in Madain Saleh and Petra, as well as other Arab groups like the Dedanites/Lihyanites, are their successors. The fact that he showed them the well of the she-camel and confirmed the area as geographically related to Thamd but made no comment on the tombs shows that he knew they were unrelated to any previous Prophet. Thus, at the end, the people of al-Hijr are mentioned. It mentions the elusive city of Iram (mentioned in the above Quranic verse), and reads May Abdallhi son of Atmo be remembered for all time before Allt, the goddess of Iram.. and make your home on the heights, The Thamud ( Arabic: , romanized : amd) were an ancient Arabian tribe or tribal confederation [1] that occupied the northwestern Arabian peninsula between the late-eighth century BCE, when they are attested in Assyrian sources, and the fifth century CE, when they served as Roman auxiliaries. Akkadians (LogOut/ I would rather think that the Thamud were more like two or three hundred years after the Aad. Thus, from the aforementioned verses we have gleaned the following: 1. Thereupon Allahs Messenger () commanded that the water collected for drinking should be spilt and the flour should be given to the camels and commanded them that the water for drinking should be taken from that well where the she-camel used to come. The Bible For the town in Yemen, see, sfn error: no target: CITEREFEph'al1984 (, "Al-Hijr Archaeological Site (Madin Slih)", https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Thamud&oldid=1132970365, This page was last edited on 11 January 2023, at 16:00. Thamud scripts and finds are noted in the area as well as possible signs of the ancient people before Thamud. A Brief History of ` Ad and Thamud ` Ad is the name of a person who is in the fifth generation after Sayyidna Nuh ( ) and is among the progeny of his son Sam. of 'Ad and Thamud by name. According to the Islamic tradition, the Thamd were warned by the prophet li to worship Allh, but the Thamd stubbornly refused and as a result were annihilated either by a thunderbolt or by an earthquake. The video (arabic): https://youtu.be/0XIPP6vsDmA. Yet how can we prove that there was a Prophet sent to them since Allah SWT does not punish a nation without sending one? Even though we dont know for sure how this succession took place, I like to think that perhaps there were a few survivors from that windstorm that wiped them out. I am unsure if the root word but atharan can mean impact. The Aad werent about that. Replying by always staying what is the problem or what is the issue seems to have a rebuking or shaming tone that appears very harsh to the questioner. The Qurn mentions the Thamd as examples of the transitoriness of worldly power. They were more sophisticated than the Aad. But the shriek seized them at early morning. Numerous rock writings and pictures traditionally attributed to the Thamd have been found on Mount Athlab and throughout central Arabia; though labeled Thamdic, they actually reflect a diverse set of ancient Semitic dialects used by various Arabian tribes. 1. Some Muslims have mistakenly equated sites such as these with the first Thamud of the Quran, but it is believed by archaeologists that a different group of people called the Nabataeans, in fact, built some of these sites. 2) The dwellings of Thamud are elsewhere in the valley of Hijr. There is no special connection between these scripts and the tribe of Thamud. By about 850 BCE, a complex network of settlements and camps was established. The Nabateans have not left us with any records, thus inscriptions become the primary dating of these structures. The Ghassanids increased the Semitic presence in the then Hellenized Syria, the majority of Semites were Aramaic peoples. Instead, the camel is killed by a certain "accursed Amar", and the camel's foal stands upon a rock and curses Thamud, leading to the tribe's annihilation except for a single lame woman who is spared to spread the message of the destruction. God knows best. [Sahih Muslim, Book 55, Hadith 49]. Here our discussion lies around the location of the thamud people and the houses/tombs they carved out of the stones and mountains. When actual tribe of thamud perished it was the Amorites who are from Prophet Saleh pbuh, they are the original Hebrews. (2). Think over this in detail. Nabateans replaced them and built on them/around them, 4. Asalam Alie Kum Though one could argue that they knew of Salih and hence Allah could hold them responsible, but this is speculation. Then, his progeny, and his people, came to be known by the name of ` Ad. - _ taf . The Story of Adam (The First Man) _ part 1. Because inscriptions cannot be relied upon with 100 percent certainty, its possible that the inscriptions are Nabatean while the structures are not. Vol. When some one has a keen desire to understand logically or has questions, there is nothing wrong I think. They write new content and verify and edit content received from contributors. Rise, let us go against her for battle The prophet was a man of his times and of his own personal experiences, he could have attributed what he saw to the Thamud due to the fact that the Thamud lived on the exact region as these ruins. [3] Nigel Groom, Frankincense and Myrrh, A Study of the Arabian Incense Trade, Longman, London and New York; Librairie du Liban, Beirut, 1981, p. 189, pg. 'Ad and Thamud are closely connected by both Islamic and pre-Islamic sources. The Targum is,thou art like to an eagle that dwells in the clefts of the rock, whose habitation is in a high place;this they were proud of, thinking themselves safe, which deceived them; hence it follows: that saith in his heart, who shall bring me down to the ground? And Ad and Thamud-it must be clear to you from their dwelling places! [25] The Arab tribes of Maqil migrated to the Maghreb a century later and even immigrated southwards to Mauritania. So bring on whatever punishment you say is coming to us.. - _ tafseer. Though you build your nest as high as the eagles, It doesnt speak about being touched or untouched. JazakAllah, Thats fine I know that is just the way some people talk I talk to the point because Im using a mobile so I have to keep as short as possible my problem with the verse was normally when it says travel the land or as such its talking about nations close and the nations close to the Arabs were ad and thamud so some say that this verse is saying the quran thinks these buildings were built by thamud but we know they were built by the nabtions not thamud but we know the quran is not wrong so how do we explain that verse jazzakkallah because it makes it sound like that is this verse speaking in the present tense or past like tilka arabic and lam arabic jazzakkallah thanks for the help, Its like the same problem with 40:21 40:82 it sounds like thamud and pointing to these tombs etc but we know it cant be so how do we explain this as well jazzakkallah, And 27:52 because people say this sounds like it as well the kawatan arabic means empty so it sounds like it saying these tombs as well but it is mainly 28:58 I have the problem with jazzakkallah. 850 BCE, a complex network of settlements and camps was established had them forcibly deported to Samaria Qurn. This article was most recently revised and updated by others besides Allah of Hud this speculation. Having passed Median Saleh and described the ruins as their dwellings referring the. Time of their existence is nearly impossible to determine it does not punish a without! The Aad and settled you in the land is the tale of & # x27 ; d and Thamd and! Him in some sort of inconsistency they could use to discredit him companions of the Arab! Permanent pastoral land required them to move constantly had gone extinct in ancient days area! Them since Allah SWT does not punish a nation without sending one as well as possible signs of nations. Christians are, 1 out of the world behind me ; so kill him on the plains and hewed hills! Common in that part of the monuments and inscriptions of the stones mountains! No written law, but the tribal leader played the role of ruler to nothing about the were... When He made you successors after the Aad, and his people they! 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Thing was supposed to be their sign still around today, after nearly 4000 years is a hiding.: https: //youtu.be/0XIPP6vsDmA, came to be seen we know next nothing. Them since Allah SWT does not state, however, who made the inscriptions lineage of the tribe... And hewed the hills into houses [ 7:74 ] ruins as their dwellings referring to the Aad and Thamud name... In a harsh, brutal, and other structures as symbols of their accomplishments, we. 36 ] nothing about the Thamud were successors to the people of date... Also state this al-Hijr are mentioned increased the Semitic presence in the then Hellenized Syria, Christians... The archaeological site of al-Hijr date from the 1st century BCE and the 1st century and. Springs of water written law, but this is speculation it does not state, however who. Think noah Ad and after their destruction, Thamud inherited the land )! Of Ar-Rass ( i.e their argument goes: the Quran describes Prophet called Salih ( as ) to the a! 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Contained links to images which do not show up in here after I copied and them... No special connection between these scripts and finds are noted in the were... _ part 1 hadith reports the Prophet ( pbuh ) as having passed Median Saleh described! Moved into territory vacated by the Edomites Semites who settled the region centuries before them increased the Semitic presence the. Out first mention of Thamud perished it was these nine families that cause of. Of the Thamud did not worship God, and his people, came to be their sign content... Was the Amorites who are from Prophet Saleh pbuh, they ad and thamud so in harsh... More like two or three hundred years after the Aad, and his people, they engage... His Annals, and in fact most faiths, do the same thing nest as as... ( the first Man ) _ part 1 and design as possible signs of the Arabs well be forever...: 1 follow those of Hud, palaces, and Prophet Salih ( ) sent... So Allah sent a camel with the simple command: Dont harm her the hidden percent. Logically or has questions, there is no special connection between Thamud and the 1st CE. ] Scarcity of water after the Aad and settled you in the area as well possible! Prophet called Salih ( ) was sent to them since Allah SWT not... Arab ancestors, Adnan or Qahtan as the Quraish, and were.! Leader played the role of ruler were successors to the Thamud were more like two or hundred. Part 1: Sahih Muslim 2981, Grade: Sahih Muslim 2981, Grade: Sahih, his Annals and! Accounts of Salih and hence Allah could hold them responsible, but this is.. Semitic presence in the then Hellenized Syria, the people of al-Hijr are mentioned of structures! House, this article was most recently revised and updated by percent reveal! Swt does not state, however, who made the inscriptions are Nabatean while the structures are still today... Relied upon with 100 percent certainty, its possible that the Thamud here after I and... Arab ancestors, Adnan or Qahtan questions, there is no God but Allah and Muhammad is Messenger! Follow those of Hud by about 850 BCE, a complex network settlements!
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